Estimated read time: 7-8 minutes
SALT LAKE CITY — Israelis and Palestinians have both been "absolutely traumatized" by the Oct. 7 attack on Israel by Hamas, and the subsequent war in Gaza, Secretary of State Antony Blinken told Utah Sen. Mitt Romney Friday.
"And when this conflict ends, building back from that trauma is going to be an extraordinary task," Blinken said.
At the time of the attack, Israel and Saudi Arabia were just days away from normalizing relations, Blinken said, something he hopes might still happen.
Romney interviewed Blinken at the McCain Institute's 2024 Sedona Forum, held Friday and Saturday in Sedona, Arizona. They discussed the war in Gaza and the possibilities for a cease-fire, as well as the relationship between China and the U.S., and the continuing war in Ukraine.
Romney had high praise for Blinken, saying he is a "thoughtful, perceptive, intellectually curious, devoted person, dedicated, determined, indefatigable, who has traveled the world time and time again. Not a person of bombast but a person who listens and is soft-spoken. We are very fortunate to have a man of that kind of quality, experience and character as our current secretary."
Blinken returned the praise, saying, "Mitt Romney is a man of extraordinary principle married to extraordinary pragmatism. It's a rare combination, and I've gotten to see that up close these last few years."
On the Middle East
Blinken discussed the Biden administration's latest attempts to resolve the conflict between Israel and Hamas, which includes a cease-fire agreement Israel has already agreed to.
"In this moment, the best thing that can happen would be for the agreement that's on the table, that's being considered by Hamas, to have a cease-fire, the release of hostages, the possibility of really surging humanitarian assistance to people who so desperately need it. That's what we're focused on," Blinken said.
The "only thing standing between the people of Gaza and a cease-fire is Hamas. So we look to see what they will do," he said.
He also said the administration continues to focus on trying to get humanitarian assistance to the Palestinians in Gaza.
"We are working every single day, the president's working every single day, to make sure that we are doing what we can so that the people in Gaza, who are caught in a crossfire of Hamas' making, get the help, the assistance, the support they need," he said.
Blinken said he was worried about the "demonization" going on in relation to the conflict, particularly in the U.S., saying it is a "poison that we have to fight constantly."
Blinken said he also sees promising developments, like the desire in Saudi Arabia to normalize relations with Israel, something he said he was working on before Hamas attacked Israel on Oct. 7.
"In fact, I was due to go to Israel and Saudi Arabia on Oct. 10 to work on this and, in particular, to work on the Palestinian piece of the puzzle — because for us, for the Saudis, if we're able to move forward on normalization, it has to include also moving forward on the aspirations of the Palestinian people," he said.
Blinken also addressed Iran's "unprecedented" direct attack on Israel.
"Some people said, 'Well, it was designed so it wouldn't do much much damage, carefully calibrated.' Nothing of the sort. More than 300 projectiles launched at Israel, including more than 100 ballistic missiles," he said.
"It's because Israel had very effective defenses, but also because the president of the United States managed to rally on short notice, a collection of countries to help, that damage was not done," he said.
Romney asked Blinken why Hamas has not agreed to the cease-fire proposals that have been put on the table.
Blinken said the leaders of Hamas live in Qatar, or other places, and the decision makers are in Gaza. But, Blinken said, if Hamas does represent the Palestinian people, as they purport to, agreeing to the latest cease-fire proposal would be a "no-brainer."
On Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu, Blinken said no matter what people think of the prime minister, what he's doing is "actually a reflection of where a large majority of Israelis are in this moment."
Blinken said the Biden administration is trying to share with Israel not only what is in the U.S.'s interest, but what the administration feels is in Israel's interest, especially when it comes to a possible invasion of Rafah, which Israel has been speaking about since February, as Israel tries to recover the remaining hostages.
Given the number of Palestinians in the city — Blinken estimated there are 1.4 million Palestinians there — "absent a credible plan to genuinely protect the civilians who are in harm's way ... we can't support a major military operation going into Rafah because the damage it would do is beyond what's acceptable," he said.
Blinken said "Israel has a right to defend itself," and questioned why the world had "moved on" from talking about Hamas' attack on Oct. 7, but he reiterated the importance of protecting civilians.
Romney asked why has Israel's "PR been so awful."
Blinken attributed the world's criticism of Israel to the "inescapable reality" of the suffering in Gaza, as well as the current "information environment." In the past, people looked to major national news outlets like The New York Times or The Wall Street Journal for their news, but now, "The way this has played on social media has dominated the narrative," he said.
This means much of the history, context and facts are lost to an emotional response, he added.
When Romney asked whether a two-state solution was still possible, Blinken said "It is an imperative," for peace in the region, especially as nations like Saudi Arabia look at normalizing relations with Israel.
Blinken on China and Ukraine
Blinken said the Biden administration is trying to establish regular dialogue with all levels of the Chinese government, including with the military.
He said it's also trying to "approach China from a position of strength," including by expanding domestic manufacturing, especially in the area of microchips, and also working with European partners on the issue.
The biggest killer in the U.S. right now is fentanyl, he said, and many of the components are legally made in China for other uses but then are diverted for use by criminal enterprises, and so the U.S. is putting pressure on China to "take action" against the enterprises engaged in the fentanyl trade.
Romney said as a businessman, he looks at China and thinks it's done a "brilliant" job with strategy, including with its "Belt and Road Initiative," which is a network of roads, ports and infrastructure projects in its region and across the world.
Without having to worry about antitrust laws, Romney said China has been able to build monopolies in several industries, and then it competes with American companies, sometimes driving them out of business.
On Ukraine, Blinken praised Romney for helping to pass the latest aid bill for Ukraine, which put Romney at odds with some members of his party.
"I do not understand how anyone can argue that we shouldn't provide weapons to Ukraine," Romney said. He asked Blinken what he thinks is the pathway forward for Ukraine.
"I believe profoundly that in so many ways, despite the incredible challenge that Ukraine is facing, it's already succeeded, and Russia has already lost," Blinken said, given Russia's goal of trying to capture control of the whole country.
As Romney and Blinken wrapped up their conversation, Blinken said the world continues to have an "ongoing thirst for American engagement (and) for American leadership," adding that if the U.S. doesn't continue to engage, "Someone else will and probably not in a way that advances our interests and values."
"We can't go it alone, and we can't go away. And that's what we're determined to make sure we're focused on as we carry on these next months," he said.
